CT biased?

[541m4n]

sup guys it's been a while. i hope you are doing good. why am i even asking here anyway. we can directly ask to the original posters on the server since they play actively.
it's not because i haven't posted screenshots of scores favoritizing humans that the situation has become better. i was tired of taking screenshots and the folder took half of my pc memory so i deleted it.
i instead made a file where i wrote down all the human and zombie wins from different servers. zegawa first gathered all the wins on unloze but i decided to compare them.

as you can see, unloze is the server where the wins is the most in favor of humans. that's what we call a ct biased server.

these numbers are impressive and probably one the most accurate ways to compare server difficulties. a win ratio of 21% is slightly low. even on plaguefest the ratio is 36% and that server was known as one of the hardest ever (low kb, limited ammo, no rebuys etc.). we should definitely consider making things slighty easier for humans. the ratio should be more or less at around ~30%. give or take 2-3%.

obviously it also has to be said that in my opinion nide/gfl/mapeadores have a way too high human win ratio and i would never want to see those numbers here. their numbers simply just underline the theory that ze today is a pve game: its humans vs maps (aka bosses/lazers etc.). this gamemode is still pvp and zombies should still win more than twice than humans. but again 21% win ratio for humans is still a little low. mark my words: i only say its a "little low" and not "far too low". should be increased by around 7-10% as i suggested above but not beyond that.

to be honest i am not even surprised by this, cause over the years css ze loses more and more "good" players. old school experienced players eventually leave at some point. its just natural, but still something that has to be taken into account when balancing server settings. over the time we have to make things easier and keep up with the flow. the server chooses its settings based on its playerbase and not vise versa. unloze needs to keep up its competitivity to other servers and also win more maps. i like the idea that we have the hardest settings and its something we can be proud of (especially when we beat hard maps), but currently things are a little too hard.

edit: win ratio of humans here on unloze is actually 17.5% and not 21%, which is even lower

 

[Shino]

a win ratio of 21% is slightly low.

I want to quickly add that since Alcolo is french and likes to make things confusing, he only divided the humans win by the zombie wins and put the number there, which is basically a ratio, but in percentages it's actually only 17.5% WR for the CTs, so even less, making the server even more CT biased

 

[541m4n]

I want to quickly add that since Alcolo is french and likes to make things confusing, he only divided the humans win by the zombie wins and put the number there, which is basically a ratio, but in percentages it's actually only 17.5% WR for the CTs, so even less, making the server even more CT biased

ye you are right. holy fuck. its even worse than expected.

but lets take this more serious pls. something should be done here ...

 

[Kiku-san]

I want to quickly add that since Alcolo is french and likes to make things confusing, he only divided the humans win by the zombie wins and put the number there, which is basically a ratio, but in percentages it's actually only 17.5% WR for the CTs, so even less, making the server even more CT biased

Maybe the knockback settings and map choices are something, but i think the Leaders/Trolls ratio are more into it.
A solution could be maybe more seriousness when those "aut1stic moments" happen, or incentivate people to leading maps,
OR just playing more minas.

 

[William! :D]

There is so much context and metadata missing (timespan, players, type of maps, how many of said type of maps, gamemodes, game, reasons for "round loss"), not to mention the difference in sample sizes. Unfortunately this data does not mean anything as much as it seems so convincing.

 

[Cookie]

sup guys it's been a while. i hope you are doing good. why am i even asking here anyway. we can directly ask to the original posters on the server since they play actively.
it's not because i haven't posted screenshots of scores favoritizing humans that the situation has become better. i was tired of taking screenshots and the folder took half of my pc memory so i deleted it.
i instead made a file where i wrote down all the human and zombie wins from different servers. zegawa first gathered all the wins on unloze but i decided to compare them.

as you can see, unloze is the server where the wins is the most in favor of humans. that's what we call a ct biased server.

 

[541m4n]

There is so much context and metadata missing (timespan, players, type of maps, how many of said type of maps, gamemodes, game, reasons for "round loss"), not to mention the difference in sample sizes. Unfortunately this data does not mean anything as much as it seems so convincing.

i know that some context and metadata is missing. however even if it isnt very accurate you can clearly see there is a big gap between unloze and any other server (except maybe for plaguefest). if the difference was only around 5-10% i would look at this more sceptical as well. the gap is so big, that even if you get the necessary data it will never ever close it. maybe only bring them closer.

thats what i rely on when i made my statement. more accurate data isnt really needed, cause you can already see a huge gap here. that gap can be wrong at around 10% and there is still plenty of room left. i mean lets all be honest here, does it surprise anyone that nide wins more maps than we do? this is no coincidence. its not important if the gap is 30% or 20% or 10%. we all know the gap is there. these numbers cant be completely wrong.

and even if we dont compare to other server. 17.5% win ratio means that zombies win approximately 5-6 times more than humans which seems very accurate to me. its an average relation you can expect here and in my opinion its too low. alcolo said himself he made screenshots of the scores first but simply had too many and deleted them. i bet we would have seen lots of 1-5, 1-6, 2-10 etc.

 

[William! :D]

I think there are already many other significant arguments for why we should make unloze settings easier, no need to involve misinterpreted values. I completely agree with your and alcolo's intentions. It's only a shame that the voices heard are the ones who never play but screech the most. Easy settings can be tedious but at some point we have to also recognize that the narrative pushed by some players that unloze is too easy and ct sided is debunked over and over again.

Maybe it's finally time again to have a serious discussion about this matter and make changes that are actually relevant?

 

[pickle]

based

 

[FierceG]

For data analysis not much can be taken from this just as William said above.

But before changing things: Why is it bad to have a low win ratio for Humans?

 

[jenz]

this is a pretty large discussion and i dont have much free time until end of jannuary. We can all agree that kaczor and to further extend the entire zes clan are cry babies that just want their old days of playing licciana and arctic escape 24/7 in 2008.

but yeah considering there is a lot of custom stuff there is much that could be changed. one might say that weapon balancing would solve this issue enough. others meanwhile might say that its about balancing speed/knockback again just. or that its about zm ratio or respawn settings or grenade and knife settings. or that its just about the playerbase or about the map restrictions. and i guess some may also not take into consideration that if its 5 am and the server is empty that the Lifeblood of Zombie Escape bots may cause some 100-200 round wins for terrorists per map.

any other dev and two senior admins do also have the power here to change balancing without me being involved. people really dont have to wait for myself on that. but yeah a general discussion would probably bring some points up we already heard before. either way we should not let the settings stagnate and be ready to change things again.

The question is just what has to be said that might be reason enough for one of the staffs to overwrite the current settings. We sometimes also did the vote things. not sure if people would want to do these again or just skip that. because if no votes it does just have to do with a staff saying "yes this seems right to me to change". just doing it because 1 guy writes something in here is usually not a good idea because then a month later somebody else just writes the opposite again. i do think if we hear several people mentioning the same specific thing that should be rebalanced it makes more sense for us to change.

personally i think it would be cool and probably help if we just tried to unrestrict all weapons for CT. (i believe scout should have its running speed modified to 250 already. (if actually not then scout should just be the only restricted weapon IMO)).

 

[541m4n]

this is a pretty large discussion and i dont have much free time until end of jannuary. We can all agree that kaczor and to further extend the entire zes clan are cry babies that just want their old days of playing licciana and arctic escape 24/7 in 2008.

but yeah considering there is a lot of custom stuff there is much that could be changed. one might say that weapon balancing would solve this issue enough. others meanwhile might say that its about balancing speed/knockback again just. or that its about zm ratio or respawn settings or grenade and knife settings. or that its just about the playerbase or about the map restrictions. and i guess some may also not take into consideration that if its 5 am and the server is empty that the lifeblood of zombie escape bots may cause some 100-200 round wins for terrorists per map.

any other dev and two senior admins do also have the power here to change balancing without me being involved. people really dont have to wait for myself on that. but yeah a general discussion would probably bring some points up we already heard before. either way we should not let the settings stagnate and be ready to change things again.

The question is just what has to be said that might be reason enough for one of the staffs to overwrite the current settings. We sometimes also did the vote things. not sure if people would want to do these again or just skip that. because if no votes it does just have to do with a staff saying "yes this seems right to me to change". just doing it because 1 guy writes something in here is usually not a good idea because then a month later somebody else just writes the opposite again. i do think if we hear several people mentioning the same specific thing that should be rebalanced it makes more sense for us to change.

personally i think it would be cool and probably help if we just tried to unrestrict all weapons for CT. (i believe scout should have its running speed modified to 250 already. (if actually not then scout should just be the only restricted weapon IMO)).

a vote sounds good. we could do that. first question could be: keep the current settings or make things easier. then wait for the result. if majority agrees on making things easier make a follow up vote with different options. like lower kb, reduce zm speed, unrestrict all weapons for cts etc. then based on the results with the most votes we can implement those.

 

[Malala]

obviously it also has to be said that in my opinion nide/gfl/mapeadores have a way too high human win ratio and i would never want to see those numbers here. their numbers simply just underline the theory that ze today is a pve game: its humans vs maps (aka bosses/lazers etc.). this gamemode is still pvp and zombies should still win more than twice than humans. but again 21% win ratio for humans is still a little low. mark my words: i only say its a "little low" and not "far too low". should be increased by around 7-10% as i suggested above but not beyond that.

instead of looking at numbers you should actually play the servers, nide has a higher win ratio because the server doesn't sit idle with like a handful of players at 3am and plays more casual maps than unloze including pvp maps like nemesis the pve maps you're complaining about are the harder maps that unloze typically play more

unloze needs to keep up its competitivity to other servers

u mean nide?? the only other server is nide and unloze isn't going to be losing to nide in the "winning hard map" deparment any time soon

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[TrapWHree]

guys guys guys after some internal votes where inactive people could vote i think we finally managed to get some balance in settings
illya : View attachment 1166
stone pit : View attachment 1167
visualizer : View attachment 1168
avalanche : View attachment 1169
bioshock : View attachment 1170

are these scores good enough for you or do you think the win ratio is still in favor of humans ?

ct biased? View attachment 1190

ct biased? wtf
View attachment 1195

it continues

pokemon : View attachment 1237

starwars : View attachment 1238

uchiha : View attachment 1239

castlevania 64 : View attachment 1240

Stilshrine: View attachment 1242

I just want to say that all four of you are brainless retards as to be expected.
Those scores come from shit maps which the players were trying to win so desperately with a god awful team that they endlessly extended until they either won or gave up.
If people would extend maps that they've already beaten after a round or two for another three hours, you'd see 20:2 scores on every second map as well.

Your posts and inputs were shit and hold 0 value.

 

[Cookie]

I just want to say that all four of you are brainless retards as to be expected.
Those scores come from shit maps which the players were trying to win so desperately with a god awful team that they endlessly extended until they either won or gave up.
If people would extend maps that they've already beaten after a round or two for another three hours, you'd see 20:2 scores on every second map as well.

Your posts and inputs were shit and hold 0 value.

Talking out of your ass as usual

Guess what, the score on my screenshot was changed by an admin

 

[TrapWHree]

You couldn't even hold your admin status for more than a few weeks.
6 present admins don't care that you get killed by griefers. Talk to me again once people don't consider you irrelevant anymore.

https://unloze.com/threads/klixus-item-trolling.2520/

 

[Cookie]

You couldn't even hold your admin status for more than a few weeks.
6 present admins don't care that you get killed by griefers. Talk to me again once people don't consider you irrelevant anymore.

https://unloze.com/threads/klixus-item-trolling.2520/

What has that have to do with this discussion? omegalul

 

[Bane]

Guys clearly you can see that this server is ct biased i mean come on zombies couldn't do shit on hsc, I'm playing once every 3 years on the server and i want things to change?????

 

[Malala]

its retarded to mention settings in context of a map where most players are dying to a boss fight or something, they weren't losing hsc because the zombies were too OP/too good

 

[William! :D]

Ah yes, another shit map which the players were trying to win so desperately with a god awful team that they endlessly extended until they either won or gave up. It's absolutely retarded to mention settings in context of this map btw where most players are dying to a boss fight or something idk idk.